Comments on: Paving the Way to War with Iran http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/ Author James Bovard Thu, 17 May 2012 03:52:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: auwal gidado http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-112493 auwal gidado Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:23:44 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-112493 the day the US invade Iran will be the beginning of end for it.Iran is no Iraq.American interest the world over will come under attack as Iran has diehard supporters who are ready to die for her. the day the US invade Iran will be the beginning of end for it.Iran is no Iraq.American interest the world over will come under attack as Iran has diehard supporters who are ready to die for her.

]]> By: passin trhu http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-4551 passin trhu Sun, 17 Sep 2006 03:14:41 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-4551 The US will invade Iran, and will spend a shitload of money... why? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry The US will invade Iran, and will spend a shitload of money… why?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

]]> By: melvynadam http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3538 melvynadam Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:41:53 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3538 I deplore the idea of large scale indiscriminate murder as practised by Japan, Germany, the US and the UK in WW2. I also deplore the above suggestion to do the same. Now to Jumpmaster's question: "Who told you “they” want war?". Do you listen to the speeches of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? Perhaps you don't understand Farsi but you could certainly read the English transcripts. He's not seeking a peaceful world free of wars. He's also not calling out for just the destruction of the Jews. He most definitely wants a huge, global war leading to the restoration of the Islamic empire. Or perhaps you think the Mossad/CIA/boogeyman are writing his speeches for him? I deplore the idea of large scale indiscriminate murder as practised by Japan, Germany, the US and the UK in WW2. I also deplore the above suggestion to do the same.
Now to Jumpmaster’s question: “Who told you “they” want war?”. Do you listen to the speeches of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? Perhaps you don’t understand Farsi but you could certainly read the English transcripts. He’s not seeking a peaceful world free of wars. He’s also not calling out for just the destruction of the Jews. He most definitely wants a huge, global war leading to the restoration of the Islamic empire. Or perhaps you think the Mossad/CIA/boogeyman are writing his speeches for him?

]]> By: THOROUGH http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3535 THOROUGH Sun, 20 Aug 2006 03:07:56 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3535 Nothing to wary about. The U.S will invade Iran and will be just another reginal war will soon be forgotten. China wants oil, and keep its interest in Iran's oil, The U.S has a great interest in Chinas' economy. Before any war take place The U.S will strike deals with China to ease its fears as well as deals with Russia, and let them know that their interest will stay no matter what government comes up in Iran. Even if Iran has nukes and even if the Iranians are willing to use them. The US will still attack, and Iran will lose and to everybody's surprise very fast. Nothing to wary about. The U.S will invade Iran and will be just another reginal war will soon be forgotten. China wants oil, and keep its interest in Iran’s oil, The U.S has a great interest in Chinas’ economy. Before any war take place The U.S will strike deals with China to ease its fears as well as deals with Russia, and let them know that their interest will stay no matter what government comes up in Iran. Even if Iran has nukes and even if the Iranians are willing to use them. The US will still attack, and Iran will lose and to everybody’s surprise very fast.

]]> By: Jumpmaster http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3530 Jumpmaster Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:27:38 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3530 Mmmhhhh... this is a serious case. But there are specialized doctors even for those cases. BTW. Who told you "they" want war? War is spread in the ME by the US on behalf of israel through a clique named Nero-Cons. BTW. BTW. "So if you want a war with Iran, you’d better fight an all-out-one like what we did to Dresden except 200,000 times worse." You are definitely no soldier, otherwise you would not confuse war with murder. Or are these the US- rules of engagement by now. J. Mmmhhhh… this is a serious case. But there are specialized doctors even for those cases.
BTW. Who told you “they” want war? War is spread in the ME by the US on
behalf of israel through a clique named Nero-Cons.
BTW. BTW.
“So if you want a war with Iran, you’d better fight an all-out-one like what
we did to Dresden except 200,000 times worse.”
You are definitely no soldier, otherwise you would not confuse war with murder. Or are these the US- rules of engagement by now.
J.

]]> By: PowerSoldier One http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3495 PowerSoldier One Fri, 18 Aug 2006 04:11:17 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3495 War with Iran: Let The Generals and Soldiers Fight It...RUTHLESSY!!! The problem with the average dumb political lackey is they're not ruthless enough when it comes to war. When you're talking WAR with Iran we're talking about seriously trained, multi-millon strong and energetic young folk armed to the teeth with the latest Russian, Chinese and Iranian made weapons. So if you want a war with Iran, you'd better fight an all-out-one like what we did to Dresden except 200,000 times worse. These are my suggestions as a REAL soldier who knows what he is doing, as to... HOW TO UTTERLY DEFEAT IRAN: 1) Purloin 200 Boeing 747-400 series Commercial Air Freighters from the private sector. There are currently about that many available that can be had within 10 days for leasing within the US market alone. A 747-400 cargo frieghter can carry 124 tons (113,000 kg/547,000 lbs) of cargo up to 4450 nautical miles and has a ceiling of up to 48 thousand feet with slight modification to the engines. These would keep it out of range of many SAM's (Surface to Air Missiles) that would be fired by the enemy. 2) We use the common two-litre plastic pop-bottle that usually contains Cola or other types of fizzy drink and replace the fluid with gasoline. These bottles are ideal because they are designed for pressurization due to the carbon dioxide used in fizzy drinks and can take a beating during shipping. We replace the bottle caps with cheap (but safe) detonation caps which turn a single two-litre bottle of gasoline into a very powerful incendiary device which we have tested to have a lethal explosive force projection of 16 square metres (154 square feet)and secondary fire-starting effects over 100 square meters. These bottles are cheap and fast to obtain plus current daily U.S. production of these 2-litre bottles is over 5 million every day. Using current production lines purloined from the private sector, we can realistically fill 3 million two-litre bottles per day with either simple high-octane gasoline or we can add liquid styrene under pressure to make a bomb that is similar to a napalm incendiary. 3) A ground crew of 10 can load 45,000 bottles of these devices onto a 747-400 and turn the plane around for a sortie in 2.5 hours. With gravity feed and simple targeting mechanisms, we expect the force projection of each incendiary device to have an effective scatter factor of 50 bombs per 40,000 square meters which calculates out to 36,000,000 square meters (3.6 square km/2.2 square miles) of highly effective force projection per sortie. Each 747 can fly 5 sorties per 24 hour day dropping 225,000 incendiary devices onto an enemy and rain a hell fire over 18 sq km (10.9 square miles). Two hundred 747's over 10 days can thus create a hurricane of fire over 18,000 square km (10,980 square miles). Over 100 days we could obliterate 180,000 square km (or 110 thousand square miles) or almost half of Iran using simple and effective fire bombs. It would make Dresden look like a warm day at the park. 4) We use simple 200 litre (55 gallon) plastic drums to deliver thousand of tonnes of liquid Flourine and dump it onto major Iranian rivers, streams and water reservoirs. Flourine ignites into a raging fire when it comes into contact with water and since many communities are located near water bodies, the burning water would skip onto dry land and ignite whole villages, towns and even cities. And because the Flourine tends to flow, there is a high likelihood of creating firestorms that create huge hurricane-force drafts igniting everything in its path and thus causing a massive force-multiplier effect over a large area. 5) Insertion of special forces into gas-producing regions that have high concentrations of sour-gas wells. We target the easiest wells to blow and let the clouds of sour gas flow into surrounding areas causing enourmous disruptions as the hazardous and suffocating hydrogen sulfide gas wafts into populated areas. 6) Since many drinking reservoirs are near heavily populated cities we dump CO/CO2 reactants into them that cause runaway production of massive clouds of Carbon Monoxide gas that will flow into the lowest regions of populated areas. Since the combatants and civilian populations will tend to congregate in bunkers or basements during our bombardment, their shelters will turn into their tombs as the clouds of rapidly moving Carbon Monoxide gas suffocates the inhabitants. CO does not dissipate into the atmosphere like CO2 would and forms large concentrations that flow like water. We would do this at night when most inhabitants are asleep in their basements or underground shelters. 7) Specially produced microbes that eat petroleum-based products such as tires, rubber, plastic and even the tar-based pavement of roads would reduce their transportation infrastructure into ruin. These microbes ingest the petroleum-based products and turn it into alcohol and rapidly break down the harder material into a jelly-like substance. These microbes have short 3 day shelf lives and are now just coming onto the market usually used for environmental cleanup but in our case it has significant military value. We can currently produce about 100 tonnes per day which could destroy about 1000 square km. We focus the dumping of the hydrocarbon fractioners onto only the most valuable targets such as refineries and foodstuff production systems. 8) Then for the coup-de-grace, hundreds-of-thousands of tons of Ethylene Glycol (simple Anti-freeze) can be targeted for dumping onto farms and food-growing areas and into water reservoirs. If the firestorms doesn't get the natives, the starvation willafter we poison their food and water supply which will finish the job within 3 months. The Ethylene Glycol will break down in about two years, environmentally it's definitely not as bad as using nuclear weapons. In conclusion, we can completely bring Iran to it's knees without the use of huge numebrs of land-forces, only if we have gumption and ruthlessness to do so using simple off-the-shelf, commercially available supplies and technology. This scenario is but one of the many non-traditional modes of combat designed and simulated by our warfighters. We know it works, we just have to use it and use it at full force with NO holding back. They want a war, let's givem one they'll NEVER forget! Active Scenario by PowerSoldier One War with Iran: Let The Generals and Soldiers Fight It…RUTHLESSY!!!

The problem with the average dumb political lackey is they’re not ruthless
enough when it comes to war.

When you’re talking WAR with Iran we’re talking about seriously trained,
multi-millon strong and energetic young
folk armed to the teeth with the latest Russian, Chinese and Iranian made
weapons.

So if you want a war with Iran, you’d better fight an all-out-one like what
we did to Dresden except 200,000 times worse.

These are my suggestions as a REAL soldier who knows what he is doing,
as to…

HOW TO UTTERLY DEFEAT IRAN:

1) Purloin 200 Boeing 747-400 series
Commercial Air Freighters
from the private sector. There are
currently about that many
available that can be had within
10 days for leasing
within the US market alone.

A 747-400 cargo frieghter can carry
124 tons (113,000 kg/547,000 lbs)
of cargo up to 4450 nautical miles
and has a ceiling of up to
48 thousand feet with slight
modification to the engines.
These would keep it out of range
of many SAM’s (Surface to Air
Missiles) that would be fired by
the enemy.

2) We use the common two-litre plastic
pop-bottle that usually contains
Cola or other types of fizzy drink
and replace the fluid with gasoline.
These bottles are ideal because they
are designed for pressurization
due to the carbon dioxide used in
fizzy drinks and can take a beating
during shipping. We replace the
bottle caps with cheap (but safe)
detonation caps which turn a single
two-litre bottle of gasoline
into a very powerful incendiary
device which we have tested to
have a lethal explosive force
projection of 16 square metres
(154 square feet)and secondary
fire-starting effects over 100 square
meters.

These bottles are cheap and fast to
obtain plus current daily U.S.
production of these 2-litre bottles
is over 5 million every day.

Using current production lines
purloined from the private sector,
we can realistically fill 3 million
two-litre bottles per day with either
simple high-octane gasoline or we can
add liquid styrene under pressure to
make a bomb that is similar to a
napalm incendiary.

3) A ground crew of 10 can load 45,000
bottles of these devices
onto a 747-400 and turn the plane
around for a sortie in 2.5 hours.

With gravity feed and simple
targeting mechanisms, we expect the
force projection of each incendiary
device to have an effective
scatter factor of 50 bombs
per 40,000 square meters which
calculates out to 36,000,000 square
meters (3.6 square km/2.2 square
miles) of highly effective force
projection per sortie.

Each 747 can fly 5 sorties per 24
hour day dropping 225,000 incendiary
devices onto an enemy and rain a hell
fire over 18 sq km (10.9 square
miles). Two hundred 747’s over 10
days can thus create a hurricane of
fire over 18,000 square km (10,980
square miles). Over 100 days we could
obliterate 180,000 square km
(or 110 thousand square miles) or
almost half of Iran using simple and
effective fire bombs. It would make
Dresden look like a warm day at the
park.

4) We use simple 200 litre (55 gallon)
plastic drums to deliver thousand
of tonnes of liquid Flourine and
dump it onto major Iranian rivers,
streams and water reservoirs.
Flourine ignites into a raging fire
when it comes into contact with water
and since many communities
are located near water bodies, the
burning water would skip
onto dry land and ignite whole
villages, towns and even cities.
And because the Flourine tends to
flow, there is a high likelihood
of creating firestorms that create
huge hurricane-force drafts igniting
everything in its path and thus
causing a massive force-multiplier
effect over a large area.

5) Insertion of special forces into
gas-producing regions that
have high concentrations of
sour-gas wells. We target the
easiest wells to blow and let the
clouds of sour gas flow into
surrounding areas causing
enourmous disruptions as the
hazardous and suffocating
hydrogen sulfide gas wafts into
populated areas.

6) Since many drinking reservoirs are
near heavily populated cities we dump
CO/CO2 reactants into them that cause
runaway production of massive clouds
of Carbon Monoxide gas that will flow
into the lowest regions of populated
areas.

Since the combatants and civilian
populations will tend to congregate
in bunkers or basements during our
bombardment, their shelters will turn
into their tombs as the clouds of
rapidly moving Carbon Monoxide gas
suffocates the inhabitants.
CO does not dissipate into the
atmosphere like CO2 would and forms
large concentrations that flow like
water. We would do this at night
when most inhabitants are asleep
in their basements or underground
shelters.

7) Specially produced microbes that eat
petroleum-based products such as
tires, rubber, plastic and even the
tar-based pavement of roads
would reduce their transportation
infrastructure into ruin.
These microbes ingest the
petroleum-based products and turn it
into alcohol and rapidly break down
the harder material into
a jelly-like substance.

These microbes have short 3 day shelf
lives and are now just coming onto
the market usually used for
environmental cleanup but in our case
it has significant military value.
We can currently produce about 100
tonnes per day which could destroy
about 1000 square km. We focus the
dumping of the hydrocarbon
fractioners onto only the most
valuable targets such as refineries
and foodstuff production systems.

8) Then for the coup-de-grace,
hundreds-of-thousands of tons
of Ethylene Glycol (simple
Anti-freeze) can be targeted
for dumping onto farms and
food-growing areas and into water
reservoirs. If the firestorms
doesn’t get the natives, the
starvation willafter we poison their
food and water supply which will
finish the job within 3 months.
The Ethylene Glycol will break down
in about two years, environmentally
it’s definitely not as bad as using
nuclear weapons.

In conclusion, we can completely bring
Iran to it’s knees without the use of
huge numebrs of land-forces, only
if we have gumption and ruthlessness
to do so using simple off-the-shelf,
commercially available supplies and
technology.

This scenario is but one of the many non-traditional modes of combat designed and simulated by our warfighters.
We know it works, we just have to use it and use it at full force with NO
holding back. They want a war,
let’s givem one they’ll NEVER forget!

Active Scenario

by

PowerSoldier One

]]> By: melvynadam http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3450 melvynadam Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:01:09 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3450 Not quite sure what happened. One minute I was making logical coherent points. The next I was being ignored in favour of a discussion on hunting. I suppose the truth about Ramallah street parties celebrating the destruction of US civilians is too uncomfortable for some people to hear? The fact that seven thousand IAF flights and thirty thousand troops weren't out raping, looting and pillaging all day and night for thirty days in South Lebanon is just too inconvenient and doesn't fit into your world beliefs. Don't let me disturb your alternate reality - you all go back to discussing hunting. Lest you let some truth into your Israel bashing. Not quite sure what happened. One minute I was making logical coherent points. The next I was being ignored in favour of a discussion on hunting. I suppose the truth about Ramallah street parties celebrating the destruction of US civilians is too uncomfortable for some people to hear? The fact that seven thousand IAF flights and thirty thousand troops weren’t out raping, looting and pillaging all day and night for thirty days in South Lebanon is just too inconvenient and doesn’t fit into your world beliefs. Don’t let me disturb your alternate reality - you all go back to discussing hunting. Lest you let some truth into your Israel bashing.

]]> By: Jim http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3432 Jim Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:28:56 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3432 NeoCons going hunting? There's Dick Cheney. Can you name a second one? These are not Gordon-Liddy-types, endlessly salivating about their personal arsenals and the latest breakthroughs in high tech ammo. Unfortunately, some NeoCons seem to believe that the only conceivable US interest is for the US government to rule the world. And they are willing to sacrifice an unlimited number of foreigners & Americans to fulfill their world-historical vision (or at least what they heard in grad school). NeoCons going hunting?

There’s Dick Cheney.

Can you name a second one?

These are not Gordon-Liddy-types, endlessly salivating about their personal arsenals and the latest breakthroughs in high tech ammo.

Unfortunately, some NeoCons seem to believe that the only conceivable US interest is for the US government to rule the world. And they are willing to sacrifice an unlimited number of foreigners & Americans to fulfill their world-historical vision (or at least what they heard in grad school).

]]> By: Jumpmaster http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3430 Jumpmaster Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:57:11 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3430 Hi Jim, I guess you are right- those "Neo-Cons" dont give a damn about anybody anhilliated in the execution of their mad plans. And still- I just thought I might mention what I consider serious risks for everybody involved- except the "Neo-Cons", they never smell gun-powder. (Well, out hunting sometimes...). Lets not forget: The risk is on US-soldiers also. And lets also not forget: Neo-Cons never consider US-interests! Best J. Hi Jim,
I guess you are right- those “Neo-Cons” dont give a damn about anybody anhilliated in the execution of their mad plans. And still- I just thought I might mention what I consider serious risks for everybody involved- except the “Neo-Cons”, they never smell gun-powder. (Well, out hunting sometimes…). Lets not forget: The risk is on US-soldiers also. And lets also not forget: Neo-Cons never consider US-interests!
Best J.

]]> By: Jumpmaster http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3427 Jumpmaster Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:40:36 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3427 Everybody, except for the exclusive readers of NY Post and the Fox viewers can "admire" the slaughterr of Palestinians DAILY- every night! Other than that I stand by each and every statement I have made above- all facts of life that may not be so well known in the US. BTW., which borders of israel do you consider legitimate, and in which territorry would you "jail" 4 million Palestinians? Where do you want to "accomodate" the Palestinians? No, Sir, never will there be a quiet day in the territory once called Palestine until the rightful owners, the Palestinians get back a minimum of a chance to make a decent living ON THEIR OWN LAND! J. Everybody, except for the exclusive readers of NY Post and the Fox viewers can “admire” the slaughterr of Palestinians DAILY- every night!
Other than that I stand by each and every statement I have made above- all facts of life that may not be so well known in the US.
BTW., which borders of israel do you consider legitimate, and in which territorry would you “jail” 4 million Palestinians? Where do you want to “accomodate” the Palestinians? No, Sir, never will there be a quiet day in the territory once called Palestine until the rightful owners, the Palestinians get back a minimum of a chance to make a decent living ON THEIR OWN LAND!
J.

]]> By: melvynadam http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3414 melvynadam Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:04:26 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3414 Israel wasn't "occupying" any Lebanese territory before they were dragged in by the racist Sheikh Nasrallah. Israel wasn't "stealing land" from Lebanon. The UN verified that Israel had withdrawn from every square inch of occupied Lebanon six years ago. Just after Israel did so, Hizb'Allah (seeking justification for their continued existence as an armed wing of the Iranian army running a state-within-a-state in South Lebanon) said "wait - you missed a bit". The Shebaa Farms are Syrian territory. Syria has quietly acquiesced to Hizb'Allah's claim that the area is Lebanese but refuses to do so on paper. Want to know why? This'll really amuse you - because Syria doesn't recognise Lebanon's right to exist! If Assad signs over the land he'll have to declare on paper that Lebanon is a country with borders and rights. That's not official Syrian policy so he can't help Hizb'Allah make the claim! It's all nonsense of course. Israel withdrew. Just as she withdrew from every inch of Gaza. The reason that the left-wing Israelis (who want endless dialog with, and overtures to, Palestinians) were so united behind this fight is simple: it was unprovoked aggression from two racist groups who have declared that Israeli civilians are deserving of death. I categorically reject the notion that Israel engages in "ethnic cleansing". It's simply ridiculous in light of the maths I've quoted above. If Israel wanted to commit genocide against the Palestinians, how many hours do you think it would take until there were no breathing Palestinians in Israel? Five? Six? The Israeli air force flew 7,000 flights over Lebanon and deployed between 10,000-30,000 troops on the ground. Thirty thousand ground troops and seven thousand air force flights led to fewer than eight hundred deaths. Are you that blind to the reality that the Israelis simply couldn't have been trying to kill civilians? One further point, you are completely mistaken when you claim that I "praise the slaughter of Lebanese civilians". All civilian deaths are tragic. Of course this site neglects any mention of Israeli (Jew or Arab) deaths. I believe that all civilian deaths are tragic. I also think it's extremely naive to think you can have a war in which no civilians are killed. Here in the real world, innocents die in conflict. The question is who is being targeted. It's clear when a bomber goes to a disco that he's not aiming at a military institution. When an Iranian-made missile lands in a school yard the target can't be described as "military". If Israel wants to target Lebanese civilians then she would (a) do a better job and (b) celebrate the result. Instead Israel takes endless measures to avoid civilian casualties and apologises whenever she makes a mistake. Nasrallah cheers civilian deaths. You won't see Israeli Jews having mass celebratory gatherings when thousands of civilians of any nation die. It just doesn't happen. The street parties on 9/11 in Ramallah weren't being thrown out of sadness at civilian deaths. Neither were the civilians who died on 9/11 "occupiers", "stealers of water", "cleansers of Palestinians". They were non-Muslims. They were civilians. Their deaths were tragic but Osama's a hero in Gaza. Israel wasn’t “occupying” any Lebanese territory before they were dragged in by the racist Sheikh Nasrallah.
Israel wasn’t “stealing land” from Lebanon. The UN verified that Israel had withdrawn from every square inch of occupied Lebanon six years ago. Just after Israel did so, Hizb’Allah (seeking justification for their continued existence as an armed wing of the Iranian army running a state-within-a-state in South Lebanon) said “wait - you missed a bit”. The Shebaa Farms are Syrian territory. Syria has quietly acquiesced to Hizb’Allah’s claim that the area is Lebanese but refuses to do so on paper. Want to know why? This’ll really amuse you - because Syria doesn’t recognise Lebanon’s right to exist! If Assad signs over the land he’ll have to declare on paper that Lebanon is a country with borders and rights. That’s not official Syrian policy so he can’t help Hizb’Allah make the claim! It’s all nonsense of course. Israel withdrew. Just as she withdrew from every inch of Gaza.
The reason that the left-wing Israelis (who want endless dialog with, and overtures to, Palestinians) were so united behind this fight is simple: it was unprovoked aggression from two racist groups who have declared that Israeli civilians are deserving of death.
I categorically reject the notion that Israel engages in “ethnic cleansing”. It’s simply ridiculous in light of the maths I’ve quoted above.
If Israel wanted to commit genocide against the Palestinians, how many hours do you think it would take until there were no breathing Palestinians in Israel? Five? Six? The Israeli air force flew 7,000 flights over Lebanon and deployed between 10,000-30,000 troops on the ground. Thirty thousand ground troops and seven thousand air force flights led to fewer than eight hundred deaths. Are you that blind to the reality that the Israelis simply couldn’t have been trying to kill civilians?
One further point, you are completely mistaken when you claim that I “praise the slaughter of Lebanese civilians”. All civilian deaths are tragic. Of course this site neglects any mention of Israeli (Jew or Arab) deaths. I believe that all civilian deaths are tragic. I also think it’s extremely naive to think you can have a war in which no civilians are killed. Here in the real world, innocents die in conflict. The question is who is being targeted. It’s clear when a bomber goes to a disco that he’s not aiming at a military institution. When an Iranian-made missile lands in a school yard the target can’t be described as “military”. If Israel wants to target Lebanese civilians then she would (a) do a better job and (b) celebrate the result. Instead Israel takes endless measures to avoid civilian casualties and apologises whenever she makes a mistake. Nasrallah cheers civilian deaths.
You won’t see Israeli Jews having mass celebratory gatherings when thousands of civilians of any nation die. It just doesn’t happen. The street parties on 9/11 in Ramallah weren’t being thrown out of sadness at civilian deaths. Neither were the civilians who died on 9/11 “occupiers”, “stealers of water”, “cleansers of Palestinians”. They were non-Muslims. They were civilians. Their deaths were tragic but Osama’s a hero in Gaza.

]]> By: Jumpmaster http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3412 Jumpmaster Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:38:21 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3412 To Melvynadam: You write "Like every civilised nation, Israel has this strange notion..." Civilised nations dont steal land and water, occupy foreign territory and start ethnical cleansing and daily killings of civilians- as is done (and has been for over 40 years- by israel against 4 million Palestinians. And then, as you do, to praise the slaughter of lebanese civilians as some sort of "moral achievement", at least compared with the wholesale slaughter in Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima or Nagasaki, just to name a few, is something I consider just obscene. And: After what israel does to millions of Palestinineans- are you surprised that some people are full of joy when the oppressor gets hurt? Well, you shouldnt be. J. To Melvynadam: You write
“Like every civilised nation, Israel has this strange notion…”

Civilised nations dont steal land and water, occupy foreign territory and start ethnical cleansing and daily killings of civilians- as is done (and has been for over 40 years- by israel against 4 million Palestinians. And then, as you do, to praise the slaughter of lebanese civilians as some sort of “moral achievement”, at least compared with the wholesale slaughter in Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima or Nagasaki, just to name a few, is something I consider just obscene.
And: After what israel does to millions of Palestinineans- are you surprised that some people are full of joy when the oppressor gets hurt? Well, you shouldnt be.
J.

]]> By: melvynadam http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3409 melvynadam Wed, 16 Aug 2006 06:26:08 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3409 The English and American *examples* show that an army that wants to kill civilians can kill tens of thousands in moments. Sixty years since those examples the Israelis have better equipment and easier targets. It's entirely incredulous to argue that, if the IDF was deliberately targeting the civilian population of South Lebanon, they'd kill under 800 in a month. Incidentally, that death toll also includes Hizb'Allah terrorists. The English and American *examples* show that an army that wants to kill civilians can kill tens of thousands in moments. Sixty years since those examples the Israelis have better equipment and easier targets. It’s entirely incredulous to argue that, if the IDF was deliberately targeting the civilian population of South Lebanon, they’d kill under 800 in a month. Incidentally, that death toll also includes Hizb’Allah terrorists.

]]> By: melvynadam http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3404 melvynadam Wed, 16 Aug 2006 04:55:59 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3404 I didn't argue that the death toll in Lebanon was "morally negligible". I argued that it is obvious to all that if the IDF wanted to kill civilians then 800 in a month is an incredibly low number for this highly trained, well equiped force. Anyone who sincerely believes that the Israelis were out on a murderous rampage would surely have difficulty exaplaining why they were so singularly unsuccessful at killing more of the south Lebanese. I didn’t argue that the death toll in Lebanon was “morally negligible”. I argued that it is obvious to all that if the IDF wanted to kill civilians then 800 in a month is an incredibly low number for this highly trained, well equiped force.
Anyone who sincerely believes that the Israelis were out on a murderous rampage would surely have difficulty exaplaining why they were so singularly unsuccessful at killing more of the south Lebanese.

]]> By: Jim http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3383 Jim Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:05:05 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/08/13/paving-the-way-to-war-with-iran/#comment-3383 So if Israel kills fewer than 140,000 people in one day, the IDF's killings should be considered morally negligible? Do the war crimes of the U.S. and Britain somehow sanctify the crimes of every subsequent government in perpetuity? The Israeli government has a long record of using methods and rules of engagement that kill large numbers of civilians. From 1993 to 1999, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) and its proxies (the South Lebanon Army) killed at least 355 Lebanese civilians while Muslim guerrillas in Lebanon killed 9 Israeli civilians, according to B’Tselem, Israel’s premier human rights organization. B'Tselem does great work - they are one of the most credible sources around -- in the same way that the ACLU is an excellent source on many of the abuses by the Bush administration. So if Israel kills fewer than 140,000 people in one day, the IDF’s killings should be considered morally negligible?

Do the war crimes of the U.S. and Britain somehow sanctify the crimes of every subsequent government in perpetuity?

The Israeli government has a long record of using methods and rules of engagement that kill large numbers of civilians. From 1993 to 1999, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) and its proxies (the South Lebanon Army) killed at least 355 Lebanese civilians while Muslim guerrillas in Lebanon killed 9 Israeli civilians,
according to B’Tselem, Israel’s premier human rights organization.

B’Tselem does great work - they are one of the most credible sources around — in the same way that the ACLU is an excellent source on many of the abuses by the Bush administration.

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