Comments on: American Conservative: Bush’s Torture/Dictatorship Scandal http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/ Author James Bovard Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:00:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Have Americans Lost Thier Collective Minds? Torture Is OK??? « Politics or Poppycock http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-118684 Have Americans Lost Thier Collective Minds? Torture Is OK??? « Politics or Poppycock Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:17:28 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-118684 [...] The Bush secret ruling on interrogation methods may explain the Justice Department’s passivity on torture cases. The CIA Inspector General recommended that the Justice Department prosecute a CIA agent involved in the demise of an Iraqi detainee at Abu Ghraib. As the New Yorker reported, Manadel al-Jamadi died during an interrogation during which his head was covered in a plastic bag and he was “shackled in a crucifixion-like pose that inhibited his ability to breathe.” This was one of at least eight cases the CIA referred for prosecution, including cases of homicides during CIA interrogations in Afghanistan and Iraq. But the Justice Department refuses to prosecute any of the alleged torturers. The feds cannot prosecute CIA agents without risking public disclosure of the presidential order authorizing the torture of detainees. LINK [...] [...] The Bush secret ruling on interrogation methods may explain the Justice Department’s passivity on torture cases. The CIA Inspector General recommended that the Justice Department prosecute a CIA agent involved in the demise of an Iraqi detainee at Abu Ghraib. As the New Yorker reported, Manadel al-Jamadi died during an interrogation during which his head was covered in a plastic bag and he was “shackled in a crucifixion-like pose that inhibited his ability to breathe.” This was one of at least eight cases the CIA referred for prosecution, including cases of homicides during CIA interrogations in Afghanistan and Iraq. But the Justice Department refuses to prosecute any of the alleged torturers. The feds cannot prosecute CIA agents without risking public disclosure of the presidential order authorizing the torture of detainees. LINK [...]

]]> By: Have Americans Lost Thier Collective Minds? Torture Is OK? | Justanothercoverup.com http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-118683 Have Americans Lost Thier Collective Minds? Torture Is OK? | Justanothercoverup.com Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:49:10 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-118683 [...] Also, to those that have daughters and sons that are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, and future wars that are likely to come, why should our enemies honor the Geneva Convention when the so-called “Premier Democracy” of the world doesn’t adhere to its own beliefs and the rule of law? To support torture is to guarantee that when we do get in a conflict that requires re-implementation of the draft, we are guaranteeing that our own sons and daughters will also be tortured, and murdered as well, as have several recipients of torture under the Bush administration: The Bush secret ruling on interrogation methods may explain the Justice Department’s passivity on torture cases. The CIA Inspector General recommended that the Justice Department prosecute a CIA agent involved in the demise of an Iraqi detainee at Abu Ghraib. As the New Yorker reported, Manadel al-Jamadi died during an interrogation during which his head was covered in a plastic bag and he was “shackled in a crucifixion-like pose that inhibited his ability to breathe.” This was one of at least eight cases the CIA referred for prosecution, including cases of homicides during CIA interrogations in Afghanistan and Iraq. But the Justice Department refuses to prosecute any of the alleged torturers. The feds cannot prosecute CIA agents without risking public disclosure of the presidential order authorizing the torture of detainees. LINK [...] [...] Also, to those that have daughters and sons that are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, and future wars that are likely to come, why should our enemies honor the Geneva Convention when the so-called “Premier Democracy” of the world doesn’t adhere to its own beliefs and the rule of law? To support torture is to guarantee that when we do get in a conflict that requires re-implementation of the draft, we are guaranteeing that our own sons and daughters will also be tortured, and murdered as well, as have several recipients of torture under the Bush administration: The Bush secret ruling on interrogation methods may explain the Justice Department’s passivity on torture cases. The CIA Inspector General recommended that the Justice Department prosecute a CIA agent involved in the demise of an Iraqi detainee at Abu Ghraib. As the New Yorker reported, Manadel al-Jamadi died during an interrogation during which his head was covered in a plastic bag and he was “shackled in a crucifixion-like pose that inhibited his ability to breathe.” This was one of at least eight cases the CIA referred for prosecution, including cases of homicides during CIA interrogations in Afghanistan and Iraq. But the Justice Department refuses to prosecute any of the alleged torturers. The feds cannot prosecute CIA agents without risking public disclosure of the presidential order authorizing the torture of detainees. LINK [...]

]]> By: Holliday Smith http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-42618 Holliday Smith Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:37:04 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-42618 I'm all for impeaching Bush, except for the end result. Cheney! It is very unfortunate that an independent can't win here in America. So for now, I'm sticking with the lesser of two evils - the Democratic Party! I will continue to put positive thoughts out into the universe in hope that it will hear our pleas. I’m all for impeaching Bush, except for the end result. Cheney! It is very unfortunate that an independent can’t win here in America. So for now, I’m sticking with the lesser of two evils - the Democratic Party!

I will continue to put positive thoughts out into the universe in hope that it will hear our pleas.

]]> By: Infowarrior http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-18968 Infowarrior Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:39:20 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-18968 Bush should not only be impeached, he should be charged with crimes against humanity for the Iraq War as well as charged for treason with his involvement in 9/11 by blocking the FBI's investigations of Al-Qaeda in June of 2001, charged with 3,000 counts of first degree murder for making 9/11 take place, charged with treason for leaving the borders wide open and allowing Illegal Aliens to overrun the country, charged with treason for domestic spying and charged with treason for authorizing torture. Of course removing Bush from power won't solve the main problem of the U.S. Goverment being riddled with members of the Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission in both the Democrat and Republican parties who are on the payroll of the Rockefeller and Rothschild families. All of these people have to be arrested for their crimes and imprisoned before America is restored to the great country is once was. Just removing Bush is simply changing the bird cage liner for the next New World Order puppet(Cheney, Hillary, Pelosi, McCain, etc.) who will continue the Globalists agenda of destroying America and it's soverignty. Get the truth at; http://www.infowars.com http://www.prisonplanet.com http://www.rense.com http://www.jackblood.com 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! DEFEAT THE NEW WORLD ORDER! VOTE RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT! Bush should not only be impeached, he should be charged with crimes against humanity for the Iraq War as well as charged for treason with his involvement in 9/11 by blocking the FBI’s investigations of Al-Qaeda in June of 2001, charged with 3,000 counts of first degree murder for making 9/11 take place, charged with treason for leaving the borders wide open and allowing Illegal Aliens to overrun the country, charged with treason for domestic spying and charged with treason for authorizing torture.

Of course removing Bush from power won’t solve the main problem of the U.S. Goverment being riddled with members of the Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission in both the Democrat and Republican parties who are on the payroll of the Rockefeller and Rothschild families.

All of these people have to be arrested for their crimes and imprisoned before America is restored to the great country is once was.

Just removing Bush is simply changing the bird cage liner for the next New World Order puppet(Cheney, Hillary, Pelosi, McCain, etc.) who will continue the Globalists agenda of destroying America and it’s soverignty.

Get the truth at;

http://www.infowars.com
http://www.prisonplanet.com
http://www.rense.com
http://www.jackblood.com

9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!

DEFEAT THE NEW WORLD ORDER!

VOTE RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT!

]]> By: makalvy http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-12063 makalvy Sun, 24 Dec 2006 03:46:37 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-12063 I think the pilfered "Tim" excerpt is telling. Human rights were a mainstay of the U.S. diplomatic arsenal, now they're not, it's that simple. Bush thinks he's making a good decision for the security of freedom and the nation -- but in reality, we'll be losing the benefits we gained from all that good press over the next few years. Also, the points about beheadings coming after the torture reports and the caveman hit you with a stick because you hit him first are both right on. We need to fight terrorism to be sure, but we have to stay within the law to do it. Plus, your chance of dying in a car is greater than from a terrorist attack - both are non-specific when it comes to who is affected particularly. How much of an effort do we really make to stop drinking and driving compared to what we could? We could force bars to run shuttle services... I like the comments from John from Wisconsin as well, although not the part about dying for the cause. There are several ways to effect change, one is to rebel: we know this would result in violent retaliation, we've seen it happen. Another is to work from within the system to change it. This would be by writing and talking and spreading information to each other. We have to watch out for people who get scared when you talk about politics, or think they have it all sewn up, because it is this group that gives our current politicians their power. Why argue over our opinions, they think, we're all entitled to them, right? Yes, we all have an, er, opinion. I think the pilfered “Tim” excerpt is telling. Human rights were a mainstay of the U.S. diplomatic arsenal, now they’re not, it’s that simple. Bush thinks he’s making a good decision for the security of freedom and the nation — but in reality, we’ll be losing the benefits we gained from all that good press over the next few years. Also, the points about beheadings coming after the torture reports and the caveman hit you with a stick because you hit him first are both right on. We need to fight terrorism to be sure, but we have to stay within the law to do it. Plus, your chance of dying in a car is greater than from a terrorist attack - both are non-specific when it comes to who is affected particularly. How much of an effort do we really make to stop drinking and driving compared to what we could? We could force bars to run shuttle services…

I like the comments from John from Wisconsin as well, although not the part about dying for the cause. There are several ways to effect change, one is to rebel: we know this would result in violent retaliation, we’ve seen it happen. Another is to work from within the system to change it. This would be by writing and talking and spreading information to each other. We have to watch out for people who get scared when you talk about politics, or think they have it all sewn up, because it is this group that gives our current politicians their power. Why argue over our opinions, they think, we’re all entitled to them, right? Yes, we all have an, er, opinion.

]]> By: liberty mike http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-11931 liberty mike Sat, 23 Dec 2006 00:14:08 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-11931 Ken Rhoden's comments reflect an igorance of human nature that is fatal to the survival of a free society. In my opinion, most, but certainly not all, of the founding generation understood that, human nature being what it is, a free society, if it were to have any chance at flourishing, required a healthy dose of disdain for, and distrust of, government, its goons and other toadies of Caesar. The framers understood human nature. They understood that those who seek "to serve" usually do-just well, thank you. They also understood that even the finest of men, including some men in their midst, would be no match for the perquisites of power, the ornaments of office and even the temptations of tyranny. Keep in mind that the framers suffered colonial rule, judges bought and kept by the crown(just what we have; the framers sure f..... 'd up by failing to provide a better mechanism for judicial compensation), judges who disregarded jury nullification, tax collectors who often seized the property of the colonists without court orders and without the consent of the owners(cone to think of it-just what we have), confiscation of weapons without court orders and without the consent of the gunowners(I know-just what we have now), the conscription of young men into military service by the Crown, for the Crown in order to kill frenchies and injuns(if anyone is offended by these terms, sue me or better yet, send me to a PC re-education camp or even better yet, call Congress and beg them to fast track the holocaust denial hate crime bill), the confiscation of printing presses, the incarceration of printing press operators and pamphleteers, the quartering of the Crown's filthy, sordid soldiers in their homes and all sorts of other good junk. Do you think that they held judges, for example, in high esteem? how about tax collectors? Although this is just my take, I can't help but believe(yes I am a believer-not in the big bang, nor Darwin-but not in any vertical man-god worship fairy tales) that the framers knew just what J.C. meant when he is alleged to have said, "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"-Caesar and his minions are vile vermin. They also knew that in order for a free society to thrive, there had to be eternal vigilance as a republic is not a spectator sport. They were wise enough to realize that, even with the constitution and its checks and balances, its express limitations of power and its showpiece, the bill of rights, human nature being what it is, the Ken Rhodens of the world would forget all about their paradigm, the paradigm that asserts government should fear the people and that each citizen should have their hands around the throat of government poised to throttle its trachea at even the slighest interference with his rights. Ken Rhoden’s comments reflect an igorance of human nature that is fatal to the survival of a free society. In my opinion, most, but certainly not all, of the founding generation understood that, human nature being what it is, a free society, if it were to have any chance at flourishing, required a healthy dose of disdain for, and distrust of, government, its goons and other toadies of Caesar. The framers understood human nature. They understood that those who seek “to serve” usually do-just well, thank you. They also understood that even the finest of men, including some men in their midst, would be no match for the perquisites of power, the ornaments of office and even the temptations of tyranny. Keep in mind that the framers suffered colonial rule, judges bought and kept by the crown(just what we have; the framers sure f….. ‘d up by failing to provide a better mechanism for judicial compensation), judges who disregarded jury nullification, tax collectors who often seized the property of the colonists without court orders and without the consent of the owners(cone to think of it-just what we have), confiscation of weapons without court orders and without the consent of the gunowners(I know-just what we have now), the conscription of young men into military service by the Crown, for the Crown in order to kill frenchies and injuns(if anyone is offended by these terms, sue me or better yet, send me to a PC re-education camp or even better yet, call Congress and beg them to fast track the holocaust denial hate crime bill), the confiscation of printing presses, the incarceration of printing press operators and pamphleteers, the quartering of the Crown’s filthy, sordid soldiers in their homes and all sorts of other good junk. Do you think that they held judges, for example, in high esteem? how about tax collectors? Although this is just my take, I can’t help but believe(yes I am a believer-not in the big bang, nor Darwin-but not in any vertical man-god worship fairy tales) that the framers knew just what J.C. meant when he is alleged to have said, “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s”-Caesar and his minions are vile vermin. They also knew that in order for a free society to thrive, there had to be eternal vigilance as a republic is not a spectator sport. They were wise enough to realize that, even with the constitution and its checks and balances, its express limitations of power and its showpiece, the bill of rights, human nature being what it is, the Ken Rhodens of the world would forget all about their paradigm, the paradigm that asserts government should fear the people and that each citizen should have their hands around the throat of government poised to throttle its trachea at even the slighest interference with his rights.

]]> By: Ken Rhoden http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-11356 Ken Rhoden Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:07:19 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-11356 What do you define as torture ??? That is the question. One type of torture is another man's pressure...having to go to the bathroom and not being allowed is torture for some...others just pee in their pants...Denying ice cream to a child or a sweet addicted adult can be torture....denying alcohol or drugs to the addicted can be torture. Being driven by a crazy driver on a busy road can be torture... I don't believe in ulimited power either but I don't think the press or the public should determine these matters. If individuals oversteps lgitamate boundaries they can indeed be dealt with by "we the people" I think we have enough responsible folks in the military and civilian government who can determine what real torture is and know the difference between that and persuasion. What do you define as torture ???
That is the question. One type of torture is another man’s pressure…having to go to the bathroom and not being allowed is torture for some…others just pee in their pants…Denying ice cream to a child or a sweet addicted adult can be torture….denying alcohol or drugs to the addicted can be torture.
Being driven by a crazy driver on a busy road can be torture…
I don’t believe in ulimited power either but I don’t think the press or the public should determine these matters. If individuals oversteps lgitamate boundaries they can indeed be dealt with by “we the people”
I think we have enough responsible folks in the military and civilian government who can determine what real torture is and know the difference between that and persuasion.

]]> By: O Insurgente » Blog Archive » Leitura recomendada http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-10862 O Insurgente » Blog Archive » Leitura recomendada Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:59:29 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-10862 [...] “Bush’s Torture Ticking Time Bomb: Sins of Commission” de James Bovard The MCA [Military Commissions Act] awarded Bush the power to label anyone on earth an enemy combatant and lock then up in perpetuity, nullifying the habeas corpus provision of the Constitution and “turning back the clock 800 years,” as Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA) said. While only foreigners can be tried before military tribunals, Americans accused of being enemy combatants can be detained indefinitely without charges and without appeal. Even though the Pentagon has effectively admitted that many of the people detained at Guantanamo were wrongfully seized and held, the MCA presumes that the president of the United States is both omniscient and always fair. [...] [...] “Bush’s Torture Ticking Time Bomb: Sins of Commission” de James Bovard The MCA [Military Commissions Act] awarded Bush the power to label anyone on earth an enemy combatant and lock then up in perpetuity, nullifying the habeas corpus provision of the Constitution and “turning back the clock 800 years,” as Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA) said. While only foreigners can be tried before military tribunals, Americans accused of being enemy combatants can be detained indefinitely without charges and without appeal. Even though the Pentagon has effectively admitted that many of the people detained at Guantanamo were wrongfully seized and held, the MCA presumes that the president of the United States is both omniscient and always fair. [...]

]]> By: Jim http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-10845 Jim Fri, 15 Dec 2006 05:10:39 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-10845 Always good to get a thoughtful contribution from an opposing view. I'm mystified why the entire comment wasn't in CAPS. Always good to get a thoughtful contribution from an opposing view.

I’m mystified why the entire comment wasn’t in CAPS.

]]> By: Cardascian http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-10832 Cardascian Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:52:40 +0000 http://jimbovard.com/blog/2006/12/08/american-conservative-bushs-torturedictatorship-scandal/#comment-10832 OBSESSED is the only word that comes to mind when I see the REPEATED articles re: Iraq prisoners. May those who were not even present and unknowing defend what they never have seen...find out in HELL that they have defended perhaps, one whom BEHEADED an American SOLIDERS and may that same obsessed two-legged become the joystick of the BEHEADER! OBSESSED is the only word that comes to mind when I see the REPEATED articles re: Iraq prisoners.
May those who were not even present and unknowing defend what they never have seen…find out in HELL that they have defended perhaps, one whom BEHEADED an American SOLIDERS and may that same obsessed two-legged become the joystick of the BEHEADER!

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