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	<title>Comments on: Waco, R.I.P.</title>
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	<link>http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/</link>
	<description>Author James Bovard</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The GrassCity Gazette - Page 16 - Grasscity.com Forums</title>
		<link>http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-120748</link>
		<dc:creator>The GrassCity Gazette - Page 16 - Grasscity.com Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-120748</guid>
		<description>[...] regime! I’d like to see a dialogue between the Clintons and the families of the victims of the Waco massacre. You can bet they wouldn’t let a television camera anywhere near the proceedings.   The Clintons [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] regime! I’d like to see a dialogue between the Clintons and the families of the victims of the Waco massacre. You can bet they wouldn’t let a television camera anywhere near the proceedings.   The Clintons [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Assault &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Waco, RIP</title>
		<link>http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-110337</link>
		<dc:creator>Assault &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Waco, RIP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-110337</guid>
		<description>[...] Today is the 14th anniversary of the FBIâ€™s finale at Waco. This was the day that 80 civilians died as a result of a tank-and-toxic gas assault. I thought Waco might be the most important public education lesson of the 1990s, &#8230; &#8230;more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Today is the 14th anniversary of the FBIâ€™s finale at Waco. This was the day that 80 civilians died as a result of a tank-and-toxic gas assault. I thought Waco might be the most important public education lesson of the 1990s, &#8230; &#8230;more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mace Price</title>
		<link>http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61672</link>
		<dc:creator>Mace Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61672</guid>
		<description>...I mentioned being horrified by Cults, and reality is that worst cult of all is the Cult of Personality inherent to all Totalitarian States, and worship of their leaders. Their techniques and resulting malefactions are not dissimilar...If you ask me? The Rev. James Jones was a sub-piss ant emulation of Pol Pot, and other distinguished personnel to be found throughout History.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;I mentioned being horrified by Cults, and reality is that worst cult of all is the Cult of Personality inherent to all Totalitarian States, and worship of their leaders. Their techniques and resulting malefactions are not dissimilar&#8230;If you ask me? The Rev. James Jones was a sub-piss ant emulation of Pol Pot, and other distinguished personnel to be found throughout History.</p>
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		<title>By: Orville H. Larson</title>
		<link>http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61523</link>
		<dc:creator>Orville H. Larson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61523</guid>
		<description>I don't know who was the most despicable of these  Attorneys General--Ashcroft, Gonzales, or Janet Reno. They're all civil liberties-destroying horse's asses.

As to allegations that the children in the compound were being abused, hadn't the Texas state authorities investigated that, and found no evidence of abuse?

The ATF, like all law enforcement agencies, is not averse to self-aggrandizing behavior--even if it's abusive or illegal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know who was the most despicable of these  Attorneys General&#8211;Ashcroft, Gonzales, or Janet Reno. They&#8217;re all civil liberties-destroying horse&#8217;s asses.</p>
<p>As to allegations that the children in the compound were being abused, hadn&#8217;t the Texas state authorities investigated that, and found no evidence of abuse?</p>
<p>The ATF, like all law enforcement agencies, is not averse to self-aggrandizing behavior&#8211;even if it&#8217;s abusive or illegal.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61432</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61432</guid>
		<description>Barbh - thanks for mentioning the Google videos.

Any particular site you would recommend?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barbh - thanks for mentioning the Google videos.</p>
<p>Any particular site you would recommend?</p>
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		<title>By: Mace Price</title>
		<link>http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61392</link>
		<dc:creator>Mace Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61392</guid>
		<description>...Yeah, ya gotta point. But relative to  places like say, Algeria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Burma,Cuba and very soon Venezuela? We're squattin' in some tall cotton---And me and a lotta other people wanna to keep it that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;Yeah, ya gotta point. But relative to  places like say, Algeria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Burma,Cuba and very soon Venezuela? We&#8217;re squattin&#8217; in some tall cotton&#8212;And me and a lotta other people wanna to keep it that way.</p>
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		<title>By: barbh</title>
		<link>http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61356</link>
		<dc:creator>barbh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61356</guid>
		<description>I just watched the google videos on Waco.    I live and learn, that it doesn't matter the political party, whether Iraq or Waco, there is no freedom in America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just watched the google videos on Waco.    I live and learn, that it doesn&#8217;t matter the political party, whether Iraq or Waco, there is no freedom in America.</p>
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		<title>By: Mace Price</title>
		<link>http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61325</link>
		<dc:creator>Mace Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 18:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61325</guid>
		<description>...Since "Dynamic Entry Approaches" make for salacious Headlines and "Breaking News Live!" on Television. It would then follow that such overblown contingencies, as Waco, would justify promotions and increase reputations for key and upper level personnel, which in turn warrant larger budgets for The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms...Who never have, and still do not enjoy the best reputation in Federal Law Enforcement. I get the idea the nucleus and intentions of this botched operation was an attempt to exploit a situation, that would begin elevating ATF's status in the eyes of their peers, and moreover the public. This in the same manner J.Edgar Hoover made a legend of his FBI; not to mention himself--Complete with the Government opening Alcatraz as a "Super Prison" for the "Super Criminals" the FBI apprehended. 

Fast forward to 1993, and you have the same attempt, but initiated by a far less capable and intelligent staff; Hoover may have been a depraved, ruthless and perverted miscreant, but far from an idiot. Thus attempting to walk in the same path Waco was a bumbled effort by ATF et al, resulting in, pardon the expression once flaunted by DOD Bureaucrats: "Overkill."  Ya know you really keep me on the ball Jim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;Since &#8220;Dynamic Entry Approaches&#8221; make for salacious Headlines and &#8220;Breaking News Live!&#8221; on Television. It would then follow that such overblown contingencies, as Waco, would justify promotions and increase reputations for key and upper level personnel, which in turn warrant larger budgets for The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms&#8230;Who never have, and still do not enjoy the best reputation in Federal Law Enforcement. I get the idea the nucleus and intentions of this botched operation was an attempt to exploit a situation, that would begin elevating ATF&#8217;s status in the eyes of their peers, and moreover the public. This in the same manner J.Edgar Hoover made a legend of his FBI; not to mention himself&#8211;Complete with the Government opening Alcatraz as a &#8220;Super Prison&#8221; for the &#8220;Super Criminals&#8221; the FBI apprehended. </p>
<p>Fast forward to 1993, and you have the same attempt, but initiated by a far less capable and intelligent staff; Hoover may have been a depraved, ruthless and perverted miscreant, but far from an idiot. Thus attempting to walk in the same path Waco was a bumbled effort by ATF et al, resulting in, pardon the expression once flaunted by DOD Bureaucrats: &#8220;Overkill.&#8221;  Ya know you really keep me on the ball Jim.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61275</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61275</guid>
		<description>Koresh actually went target shooting with some of the federal agents who were investigating him less than two weeks before the raid.  They were on very civil terms.

But the ATF would not get big headlines from making a peaceful arrest. 

The feds profoundly deceived the American public on this after the fatal raid.   David Hardy, a former federal lawyer, was a bulldog with Freedom of Information Act requests.  He uncovered this bombshell long after the surviving Davidians had been convicted and sentenced by a kangaroo-court-style judge.

Here's the lead up to the raid, pulled from my book Feeling Your Pain (2000)
SHOWTIME FOR THE ATF
        The investigation of David Koresh by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) began in the final year of the Bush administration.  ATF agent Davy Aguilera visited Koreshâ€™s gun dealer, Henry McMahon, in July 1992 and raised questions about whether Koresh and his Branch Davidian followers were violating the National Firearms Act by illegally converting semiautomatic firearms to full automatic.  The dealer sought to resolve the problem by picking up the phone and dialing Koresh.  When Koresh heard  the agentâ€™s concerns, he invited the agent to visit the Davidiansâ€™ residence and carry out an inspection on the spot. Aguilera refused the invitation.
	 Seven months later, agent Aguilera submitted an affidavit to a federal magistrate alleging that the Davidians were violating federal firearms laws.  The affidavit dealt at length with the Davidiansâ€™ unusual religious practices and polygamy, as well as their hostility to the federal government.  Aguilera mentioned reports that  "clandestine" publications such as Shotgun News (a widely read gun publication) and a Gun Owners of America video criticizing the ATF had been spotted inside the Davidiansâ€™ residence.(A subsequent  congressional  investigation concluded that  that â€śthe affidavit... contained an incredible number of false statements.â€ť)
	In early January 1993, the ATF rented a house near the Davidiansâ€™ poorly-built sprawling ramshackle wooden home to use as an undercover surveillance post. Eight ATF agents were stationed in the building as an undercover surveillance post.  The Davidians immediately became suspicious when their new neighbors - who were in their 30s, carried briefcases, and drove late-model cars - claimed to be college students.
	 The ATF could easily have arrested Koresh and, after he was in custody, carried out a peaceful search of the Davidiansâ€™ home.  Koresh routinely went into nearby Waco on shopping trips and regularly jogged outside of the building.  On February 19, nine days before the eventual  raid, two undercover ATF agents (recognized as such by Koresh and other Davidians) knocked on the door of the Davidian residence and invited Koresh to go shooting.  Koresh, two other Davidians, and the two agents proceeded to have a pleasant time shooting with two AR-15s (so-called assault rifles), an ATF agentâ€™s .38 Super pistol, and two Sig-Sauer semiautomatic pistols.  Koresh provided much of the ammo for the plinking.  The undercover agentsâ€™ official report noted: â€śMr. Koresh stated that he believed that every person had the right to own firearms and protect their homes.â€ť
	Yet, the ATF still insisted that Koresh could not be arrested without a small army - and lots of accompanying television cameras.  A congressional investigation subsequently concluded: â€śThe ATF deliberately choose not to arrest Koresh outside the Davidian residence and instead determined to use a dynamic entry approach. The bias toward the use of force may in large part be explained by a culture within ATF... Management initiatives, promotional criteria, training, and a broad range of other cultural factors point to ATF's propensity to engage in aggressive law enforcement.â€ť The more force the ATF used in attacking the Davidians, the easier it would be to subsequently vilify them in the national press and in federal court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Koresh actually went target shooting with some of the federal agents who were investigating him less than two weeks before the raid.  They were on very civil terms.</p>
<p>But the ATF would not get big headlines from making a peaceful arrest. </p>
<p>The feds profoundly deceived the American public on this after the fatal raid.   David Hardy, a former federal lawyer, was a bulldog with Freedom of Information Act requests.  He uncovered this bombshell long after the surviving Davidians had been convicted and sentenced by a kangaroo-court-style judge.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the lead up to the raid, pulled from my book Feeling Your Pain (2000)<br />
SHOWTIME FOR THE ATF<br />
        The investigation of David Koresh by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) began in the final year of the Bush administration.  ATF agent Davy Aguilera visited Koreshâ€™s gun dealer, Henry McMahon, in July 1992 and raised questions about whether Koresh and his Branch Davidian followers were violating the National Firearms Act by illegally converting semiautomatic firearms to full automatic.  The dealer sought to resolve the problem by picking up the phone and dialing Koresh.  When Koresh heard  the agentâ€™s concerns, he invited the agent to visit the Davidiansâ€™ residence and carry out an inspection on the spot. Aguilera refused the invitation.<br />
	 Seven months later, agent Aguilera submitted an affidavit to a federal magistrate alleging that the Davidians were violating federal firearms laws.  The affidavit dealt at length with the Davidiansâ€™ unusual religious practices and polygamy, as well as their hostility to the federal government.  Aguilera mentioned reports that  &#8220;clandestine&#8221; publications such as Shotgun News (a widely read gun publication) and a Gun Owners of America video criticizing the ATF had been spotted inside the Davidiansâ€™ residence.(A subsequent  congressional  investigation concluded that  that â€śthe affidavit&#8230; contained an incredible number of false statements.â€ť)<br />
	In early January 1993, the ATF rented a house near the Davidiansâ€™ poorly-built sprawling ramshackle wooden home to use as an undercover surveillance post. Eight ATF agents were stationed in the building as an undercover surveillance post.  The Davidians immediately became suspicious when their new neighbors - who were in their 30s, carried briefcases, and drove late-model cars - claimed to be college students.<br />
	 The ATF could easily have arrested Koresh and, after he was in custody, carried out a peaceful search of the Davidiansâ€™ home.  Koresh routinely went into nearby Waco on shopping trips and regularly jogged outside of the building.  On February 19, nine days before the eventual  raid, two undercover ATF agents (recognized as such by Koresh and other Davidians) knocked on the door of the Davidian residence and invited Koresh to go shooting.  Koresh, two other Davidians, and the two agents proceeded to have a pleasant time shooting with two AR-15s (so-called assault rifles), an ATF agentâ€™s .38 Super pistol, and two Sig-Sauer semiautomatic pistols.  Koresh provided much of the ammo for the plinking.  The undercover agentsâ€™ official report noted: â€śMr. Koresh stated that he believed that every person had the right to own firearms and protect their homes.â€ť<br />
	Yet, the ATF still insisted that Koresh could not be arrested without a small army - and lots of accompanying television cameras.  A congressional investigation subsequently concluded: â€śThe ATF deliberately choose not to arrest Koresh outside the Davidian residence and instead determined to use a dynamic entry approach. The bias toward the use of force may in large part be explained by a culture within ATF&#8230; Management initiatives, promotional criteria, training, and a broad range of other cultural factors point to ATF&#8217;s propensity to engage in aggressive law enforcement.â€ť The more force the ATF used in attacking the Davidians, the easier it would be to subsequently vilify them in the national press and in federal court.</p>
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		<title>By: Mace Price</title>
		<link>http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61272</link>
		<dc:creator>Mace Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 13:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimbovard.com/blog/2007/04/19/waco-rip/#comment-61272</guid>
		<description>...I won't, and now that you mention it, I wonder why they didn't? Maybe they didn't want to violate his Civil Rights. In any case the whole Cult would've come apart if they'd have been smart enough to grab him away from that Compound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;I won&#8217;t, and now that you mention it, I wonder why they didn&#8217;t? Maybe they didn&#8217;t want to violate his Civil Rights. In any case the whole Cult would&#8217;ve come apart if they&#8217;d have been smart enough to grab him away from that Compound.</p>
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