Comments on: 43rd Anniversary of Israeli Attack on USS Liberty… and the Coverup Continues

By: CF Oxtrot

CF Oxtrot — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:25:25 +0000

Wow. “Adam B” is like Binny Netanyahu, Richard Perle and William Kristol, all rolled into one e-personality.

Selective memory, ignorance of inconvenient facts, and polite put-downs of those who refute him — yep, a regular Likudnik troika! Long live bigotry!

It’s so ironic when a defender of Eretz Israel sounds almost exactly like Joseph Goebbels.

By: Adam B.

Adam B. — Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:48:46 +0000

Someone, be constructive: What should Israel do? Aside from ad hominem attacks on me, aside from condemnation of what they have done, in the current circumstance (a neighbor committed to its destruction, constant attacks–feel free to tell me that I am wrong about these premises and why)–what should they do?

By the way, I’m sure you objective thinkers have all read Shelby Steele’s take today. Be proud of yourselves!

Mr. Bovard, you ask me if a single rocket being fired gives Israel carte blanche to kill all Gazans. The answer is no. But I do not believe that only one rocket has been fired, nor do I believe that all Gaza residents are being “killed” by Israeli action. Do you? Just say so. And answer my question.

By: Jim

Jim — Sat, 19 Jun 2010 03:26:56 +0000

Good point.

The routine invocation of morality in the Middle East is a sign that people didn’t pay close enough attention to the last scam…

By: Dirk W. Sabin

Dirk W. Sabin — Fri, 18 Jun 2010 21:17:53 +0000

Any State or Institution that seeks to further its own hopes and dreams by obliterating the hopes and dreams of another people have forfeited the ability to utilize morality as its justifying force. We are reduced to the equation of the dog-eat-dog. It goes on forever or until one of the sides is over-run. Birthrates would seem to indicate that the Palestinians are not about to be over-run , quite the contrary. Expect deeper violence and expect it to be splashed liberally on this side of the Atlantic.

By: Tom Blanton

Tom Blanton — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:05:39 +0000

Lawrence sums up my feelings well on his post above:

Comment on Sunday 13th June 2010 @ 1:30 pm

By: Tom Blanton

Tom Blanton — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:02:14 +0000

Adam B. apparently reads only Likud propaganda to form his views on the topic of Gaza. How else could one view Israel’s treatment of Palestinians as anything other than collective punishment? Given the very few casualties the Palestinian “rockets” have caused, how else could one justify the Israeli response as proportional?

Adam B. writes:

“The purpose of the blockade is to protect Israelis, and not to impoverish Palestinians.”

I suppose he has not read the McClatchy article published last week:

“McClatchy obtained an Israeli government document that describes the blockade not as a security measure but as “economic warfare” against the Islamist group Hamas, which rules the Palestinian territory.”

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/09/95621/israeli-document-gaza-blockade.html

Perhaps Adam B. should also check out “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” by Ilan Pappe, an Israeli. Haaretz and Uri Avnery might also be good sources of information for Adam B. because he certainly has a problem distinguishing Likud talking points from reality.

By: Lawrence

Lawrence — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:21:38 +0000

Alopowof: Good point, but like most socialist apologists for the Israeli terror state, Adam cannot distinguish between justifiable and collective responses. He’s even in a dreamworld (or is it nightmare?) about who is the initiator of this conflict, so how can anyone make progress against resistance to simple facts?

By: alpowolf

alpowolf — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:39:50 +0000

Adam, of course it is moral to use force to stop a rape. What would not be moral would be to burn the rapist’s apartment building to the ground, killing everyone inside innocent or guilty. I am responsible for the consequences of whatever force I use; the judge will be utterly unimpressed by any attempt to use cutesy euphemisms like “collateral damage”. As well he should be.

Even if Israel’s blockade worked–and do you have any evidence that it does?–it would not be justified.

By: Jim

Jim — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 03:19:06 +0000

Adam, you are spurring me to do more blogs and writing on th is topic….

In January 2009, I wrote a blog entitled, “Why Not Kill All Gazans?”
http://jimbovard.com/blog/2009/01/06/why-not-kill-all-gazans/

I suppose if the Israelis feel justified in killing all Gazans, they are also automatically justified in killing anyone who tries to feed Gazans.

Here’s a few paragraphs from that 2009 blog entry: Reading the justifications that Israeli supporters are offering for the IDF assault, I don’t see any rationale being offered that would not justify killing everyone in Gaza.

If a single rocket is fired from Gaza territory, does that mean that everyone living in that area has automatically forfeited their life? The New York Times notes today that Israeli supporters believe that “the issue of proportionality… is a false construct because comparing death tolls offers no help in measuring justice and legitimacy.”

And we are obliged to accept whatever exonerations are offered by the IDF and their apologists.

By: Adam B.

Adam B. — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 03:13:51 +0000

alpowolf, when someone is raping your 14 year old, do you consider it immoral to use a little force? Your premise that using the blockade is immoral–so Israel should sacrifice its civilian population? If Hamas chose to cease its attacks on Israel, I agree that its citizens would be better off. But Hamas is the cause–Israel is responding.

I look forward to seeing the latest twisted logic from the collection of misfits on here. Lawrence, come back and tell me what I believe again! That was my favorite.

And if any serious person, our host included, wants to actually answer my questions and suggest a reasonable course of action for the country under siege, I look forward to reading it. somehow, I do not expect any such response.

By: Dirk W. Sabin

Dirk W. Sabin — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:48:47 +0000

In reviewing the debate over “existence rights”, one has to at least enjoy the conflation of “Israel’s Right To Exist” with the demonstrated Israeli Right to Kill American Sailors and Get Away With It because our own Government felt their own enlisted men and their expensive hardware essentially expendable.

By: alpowolf

alpowolf — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:46:42 +0000

Adam B., the blockade is unjustified. The right to self-defense does not give carte blanche to dump moral principles. It does not convey the right to starve the innocent, even if you “can’t figure out a better alternative”.

By: Jim

Jim — Sun, 13 Jun 2010 21:27:19 +0000

I should have tracked this quote down earlier: “Dov Weisglass, an adviser to Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister [said when it was first imposed]: ‘The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger’”
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/05/31/israel/index.html

And if Palestinian babies die because of the blockade - its their own fault, since Israel did not approve of how their parents voted.

By: Jim

Jim — Sun, 13 Jun 2010 21:17:11 +0000

Schmer makes and represents US policy. His words capture the intent of the policy.

To talk as if the blockade had some lofty goal is hokum.

By: Adam B.

Adam B. — Sun, 13 Jun 2010 20:07:30 +0000

I asked you your view of the blockade, and you quoted a foolish politician instead. I asked you what you would suggest to deter rocket attacks, and you still fail to respond. AND to top things off, you misrepresent the foolish comments of that foolish politician.

I’m done here, Mr. Bovard. And disappointed not in your conclusions, but in your inability to satisfactorily justify them.